The Real Impact of Educational Advocacy with Sharon Dunlevy

Summarized Transcript of Episode

Ryann Watkins: Hi, Sharon. Welcome to the Raising Wild Hearts podcast.

Sharon Dunlevy: Thank you, Ryann. I'm really glad to be here.

Ryann Watkins: I am so glad that you're here, and for some reason, I felt really compelled to speak to you. This is not a topic that we've ever covered on the podcast before. I want to start by saying that 25% of foster children do not receive a high school diploma, 20% of them end up in prison, and 21% of them have their own children before the age of 21.

Those statistics are shocking, abysmal, and really sad. And don't worry, everyone, we're going to bring it back up, but I really want to start with this reality that the foster kids in our country are facing. So, let's talk about that, Sharon.

Sharon Dunlevy: Yes. So, as you said, those statistics are really sad, and there are some others, too. Only 3-12% will get some type of college degree. 57% by the age of 21 will not have a part-time or full-time job. So only 43% are working part-time or full-time at the age of 21.

The statistics are really bad, and I'm trying to bring awareness. That's why I do these podcasts and why I am really glad that you chose me to speak, because I think people don't know. We don't talk about foster kids. We know they exist, but we don't talk about them unless it's like in a TV show, and they're perpetrating a crime. But then we hear, oh yeah, that was a foster kid.

The other thing is that a lot is happening early on in the schools, and that's where I come in. I'm an educational advocate for these kids because most states don't have educational advocates for kids in foster care. Educational advocacy includes monitoring their grades, making sure they are attending school, and making sure that if they need an individualized education plan under the Individuals with Disabilities Act, they are getting one. I also help them get tutors and assistance with college and career planning. It's a lot, right? A lot goes into keeping a kid successful so that when they graduate or age out, they can be college and career-ready.

Right now, that's not happening. There is no consistency across the country; we really need to do a better job because these statistics are just getting worse.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah, so I'm assuming these kids become very fresh adults and are on government assistance then?

Sharon Dunlevy: Yes, I think there's 75% that are on government assistance throughout their lifetime.

Ryann Watkins: Wow. Okay. Something that came to me as I was really reflecting on what we were going to talk about was this orphan archetype in our world. And we see this orphan archetype in so many stories. There's Harry Potter, there's Cinderella, and many others. And many times, those are like the hero's journey, right? And they're showing this kind of orphan archetype rising and defeating these circumstances. But the odds aren't good, right? And so I'm just curious if you know how this hero's journey is working out, maybe for a very small percentage, or if you're seeing any of that.

Sharon Dunlevy: Yeah. I've seen it in some of the kids that I've worked with, but that's because they had me, they had their foster parents who worked with me. They had teachers who really took their time to reach out and help my kids. Those were the kids who came out and who are successful.

I have a story I can tell of a student whose mom died of a drug overdose. His dad was a drug user and an alcohol user. He was adopted at the age of four. His adoptive parents were abusive. He was entered back into the system. He ended up in a residential home, came out in ninth grade. They had lost all his credit, so he had to redo his ninth-grade year while going through the rest of his high school career.

We got him graduated half a year late. He went home for a little bit, but decided that was not for him. Indiana has a program called Collaborative Care, and as long as the foster child is working or in school half-time, they can continue having resources from the Department of Child Services until the age of 23.

He turned 23 a year ago, in April, and has his own apartment. He's a manager at a Domino's. He actually called me and was like, You have to come and see my apartment. So, my husband and I went down and checked out his new apartment, and saw his dog. But he used the system the right way, and he had all the right people in place.

You have to have the right people. Even somebody like Harry Potter would not be where he is if he hadn't had McGonagall, Dumbledore, Ron, and Hermione. Yes, those hero archetypes don't happen accidentally, and this country tends to like to really elevate those hero stories, right?

We're obsessed with billionaires and how they've. Pulled themselves up from the root straps. Most of them inherited their money for one thing,

Ryann Watkins: and most of them aren't happy to add another.

Sharon Dunlevy: True.

We idealize this idea of overcoming, and we don't realize that we've put all these systems in place that never allow anybody to overcome.

So our children who don't pull themselves up their bootstraps and end up being like the one I told you about, it's not because they're not motivated. They didn't have the right teacher to help them. They didn't have the right foster parents.

I have another girl that I worked with at the same time as I worked with this other student, and her experience was the complete opposite. Her foster parents were nice people, but they were pretty indifferent to what happened. There were one or two teachers who were helpful, but they’re contact with her was limited. She has a completely different story. I've completely lost track of her. I know she was just working at Burger King, barely keeping her head above water.

I have another student who became a parent before the age of 21. And her mother-in-law continually threatens them with eviction. They'll be homeless and there's nothing out there for them. Once they turn 23, there is no help. There's nobody to fall back on.

Not all these kids have anybody to fall back on, and not every foster parent is willing to keep that relationship going into adulthood. Not every teacher is either able or willing to keep those relationships going. And that's really important for our kids. And they just don't have that.

So those hero journeys sound good, but the reality is, those are one in a million, really. We've got to change the system. We’ve got to look at what's happening early on and what's keeping them in those areas and what's happening and why those statistics are so bad, and not trust that, oh, they can do it if they just put their mind to it.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah. So, a couple of things come up for me there. It sounds like we have, as a society, as politicians, as communities, as voters, as citizens, we've created this system that you said never allows anyone to overcome. It sounds like the system is creating these victims, who are then relying on mommy and daddy government to help them. And that's not much help.

And then, the other thing I think of when you're speaking is just how many of us do have the family support, we do have the community support, and I have always had that to fall back on. And it's easy from where I'm standing and from where we are standing to go pull your bootstraps up, work hard. Do the thing.

What would you do to change our system so that it would be in favor of everyone, including foster kids?

Sharon Dunlevy: Ideally, I would be fixing the families before these kids got into the foster system. Kids are being removed from their parents because of their poverty. That is something we as a society could fix, and then their kids wouldn't need to be removed, right? Yes, they should be removed from abusive parents or those who have problems with drugs and alcohol. I understand that, but we should not be removing kids because their parents are in poverty. We should be helping them.

I had one parent who lost her son when he was born because, in Indiana, they can do drug tests on all new moms. And they’ll remove the kid right from the hospital room. And this one was a wrong drug test, and it took her eight years to get her son back. And because they removed him for the drug stuff, she was fighting the court battles, and she was missing work to fight the court battles. So, then she lost her job, and she fell into poverty. She had lost her transportation, couldn't do what she needed to do to fight to get her kid back, and to establish a good home. So, all of this happened because of an error that put her into a situation where she lost her son and could not get him back for eight years.

Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. We have to start fixing the problem at the beginning. I read an article a couple of days ago from the Annie Casey Foundation, which does a lot of statistical work on child welfare and child outcomes in general, and they said, right now, every child aging out of the foster care system is costing our country $300,000, 6 million a year.

And we don't have to be that way.

If we were to provide these families with help, not a handout. But helping them find a job, helping them get the skills that they need to have a job that they can hold onto, and helping them with transportation. We think it's no big deal. We have our cars. Why don't they just drive to work? Where I live, in Indianapolis, there is a bus system, but it's not good. In the poorest parts of Indianapolis, that bus hits the stops once an hour. You're either going to get to work really early or really late. There's no consistency.

That same area doesn't have grocery stores. They have gas stations and Dollar Tree or Dollar General. They can't get fresh veggies. They can't get fresh meat. When we get these kids in foster care, they are addicted to sugary foods, chicken nuggets, salty snacks, and we're criticizing their parents, but that's because they couldn't get fresh food for their kids. It's not their fault. Now we must teach these kids how to eat better because they didn't have those opportunities.

It's just this huge cycle. If I were to have a magic wand, I would fix the beginning of the system.

Ryann Watkins:  I'm hearing you say that this is such an intergenerational problem that these kids who are born into this cycle of poverty and lack of community, lack of support, lack of resources, that the system is just totally still pitted against them.

Sharon Dunlevy: Yes, there are a lot of intergenerational problems. There's a reason those poor neighborhoods stay poor, and a lot of it has to do with continuing those cycles because that's all they know. These are not people who want to live this way. They don't want to be on government assistance. People think that they're just looking for a handout. They don't want to be like that. They don't want their kids to grow up that way. They don't know any better.

We have a lot of kids who come into the system, and they don't understand why they've been removed. Mom was a good mom. She was home, and the kids could go to school when they wanted. They don't understand. We've had other kids who were abused leave their foster homes, running, because they wanted to get back home.

I had one boy who was removed as a middle schooler. He kept acting up in every foster home he was placed in, and he finally came out and told us that he believed if he acted up enough, he would just be sent home. He didn't realize, no, you act up, we send you to another foster home, but you'll still have to stay in the foster home.

These kids are conflicted. These are their parents. They love them. Even if they're not the best parents in the world, they love them and they don't understand what could be and how things could be different.

Ryann Watkins: This brings up for me, those of us who aren't foster parents, those of us who aren't boots on the ground, how can we help? Because my first thought is raising kind kids. Not everybody has it so good as they do. Maybe bringing them to volunteer places or really having developmentally appropriate conversations about the lives of many millions of people in our country and how they're living. So, what is your take on that, Sharon?

Sharon Dunlevy: Yes. I train foster parents to be educational advocates, but I also teach foster parents other things around trauma and trauma behaviors. One class I teach is a class on raising compassionate kids. I love that you brought that up, because I'm actually teaching that class this weekend. I teach a class on raising compassionate kids because it makes a difference, and it has to start early. We've got to talk about diversity early, we've got to talk about acceptance early. We've got to talk about and model these things from the very beginning.

I am a huge proponent of parents and kids volunteering together. It just opens everybody's eyes. My family loves horses, and we have an equine therapy stable here in town, so all three of us would volunteer at that stable.

We need more than just our parents in our lives when we're children. We need community. It is important to have your kid involved in things where they have positive role models, church, sports, music, drama, etc, where they can have that connection to an adult that is not a parent. And this goes for every kid, not just foster kids.

Ryann Watkins: This brings me back to the mission, so to speak, of this podcast, which is changing the world by starting at home in our own minds and hearts. It doesn't matter who is the governor. It doesn't matter who is the president. We get to choose how we show up every single day.

Today, for ourselves first, and then for our kids. If you think back to when bad things happened to you, because I know we've all had little t or Big T trauma, if you think back to that small version of yourself, you have that inner child behind you for a reason. If I could, I would be with her and grab her cheeks and look in her eyes and go, it's okay. I know. I know this is hard and we have to do that for ourselves first, and I notice that when I'm willing to go there for myself then I show up for my three kids. Not perfect, but with a sense of compassion, with a sense of purpose, with a sense of kindness.

This is a bold claim, but I'm going to say it. But I don't think they've ever heard me say an unkind, mean word about anyone. And now that I said that, I remember after some family gatherings, when some buttons were pushed, but there's just this level of accountability that we have to have at home.

Sharon Dunlevy: Yes, we need to take that responsibility and really value the fact that we can influence the children that we have in our homes.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah. Parenting is not a passive activity. It is very active, ever-changing, flowing, evolving work. A presence and a leadership quality, which we've been talking a ton about on the podcast recently, that it takes to show up day in and day out as this very soft front, strong back.

Sharon Dunlevy: I want to say I am not a perfect parent. Ask my kid. I am not a perfect parent. I have a temper. I have said mean things. I know I have. And I still get triggered. I'm not perfect, but I also recognize I make mistakes.

When you make a mistake as a parent, own up to it. Tell your kid, because that goes a long way into building that relationship. Say to them, Hey, I was really out of line when I yelled at you about that, but this is what was going on inside of me. We all have our own triggers, and like you said, we all have been exposed to trauma somewhere.

I talk about this a lot because I really think we need to do a better job of teaching our school staff to be a little more trauma-informed. After all, our society is so different now. When I was growing up, I was a military brat, so I knew of some things, and I lived overseas, and so I had a little bit more exposure to the realities of the world that a lot of kids would not have.

But since 9-11. Our culture has changed dramatically. We now feel vulnerable. We were vulnerable to Covid. That took us by storm, and we were not ready for that. We're vulnerable to school shootings. Our kids can read about this anywhere and see this anywhere, where we did not have access to social media.

We're all exposed to trauma all the time. Trauma is not necessarily the event; it's how you react to the event. So two people can go through the exact same traumatic event and have two very different reactions, and we can't compare just because this child or person was able to get over it faster than this child or person. Doesn't mean that this one on this side is weak or less. It just means that their mind, body, and reaction are different, and we need to be better aware of that. We need to remove the idea that we know what everybody else is feeling or thinking or what happened to them, because we don't know.

When we remove that sense of knowing, then we're more open to being compassionate and more open to being kind and more open to being gracious. And that maybe they're just trying to overcome something. Maybe they've had a really bad day. I don't do this perfectly either, but it's in the back of my mind as much as possible. I am very cognizant when I go out and somebody is serving me to have a smile on my face, to always say thank you. Not to ignore them, not to treat them like they're just nobody, because they're real people. We can do those little things every day and model for our kids. Let's say I'm that parent who just never talks to the serving person, leaves a horrible tip, yells at them, and complains constantly. What am I teaching my kids when I treat somebody like that? And we don't always think about those things, and we've got to think about those things because right now we live in a very uncompassionate country, and we have got to start reteaching compassion and kindness.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah. And conversation. Asking somebody, Why do you feel that way? Where do you come from? What have you been through? One of the things that I love so much about this podcast is that I don't agree with everything everyone says. And yet, I have beautiful, loving, heartfelt conversations with everybody. And that is the point. We can find out more, we can communicate, and we don't have to necessarily agree, but there is this right level of mutual respect.

I would seriously venture to say that in any disagreement anybody could possibly get in, you could talk about it compassionately. Be open. I hear you, and you hear me.

Sharon Dunlevy: When I teach this class on raising compassionate kids, one of the big issues I talk about is dehumanizing. It's so easy on social media to think that the person we're commenting on is not a real person. But they are. And we don't know how hurtful or what's happened to them to make them say something that just seemed really off.

Like I said, I can be sometimes mean in there, and I should not, and that's something I'm always working on. I do have a gut reaction sometimes, and I want to type something, and I'll type it, and then I'll erase it. Dehumanizing has caused a lot of issues. We've got to remember, every person is a real person. Every name goes to somebody who has a history, a past their own fears, their own things that they struggle with, and we've got to stop treating them like these non-entities.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah. Kids are pure, and if you think about everyone as a 4-year-old little kid. It helps a little bit because we were all kids, and being a kid is not easy. It's tough. You're on your parents' payroll, you have to do what they say, you have to go along to get along a little bit. Giant humans are caring for you, and it's tough to grow up, individuate, and really develop this healthy sense of self. And it's no joke. Like it's work. Everyone is these little kids.

As we start to wrap up a little bit, I will ask you in a few minutes the three questions I ask everybody at the end of the interview. But before that. I want to talk to you about developmental assets. I'm just learning what those are. So, can you tell us what those are?

Sharon Dunlevy: There's a group called the Search Institute, and they've been around since like the seventies, and early on they identified 40 developmental assets that every child should experience as they're growing up. 20 of them are what they call external, and 20 of them are internal. Those assets include things like a connection to their school and having more adults than just your parents being invested in who you are. The more assets you help develop in the kids, the more likely they are going to be successful adults, to have a positive sense of identity, and to have a purpose.

One of those developmental assets for the internal is having a sense of purpose, so that every child feels like they have a role. When we go back to what we discussed about intergenerational poverty, a lot of that is because they're being told their role in society is to ask for handouts. We've got to flip that script and really build up kids with positive experiences, positive relationships, positive sense of self.

I love the whole idea because it's all about that positive growth mindset. Everything should be about looking at the positives, looking at more positives. I tell my foster parents, and it works for all parents, is when you're disciplining children, focus on the positives. For every correction, you give three praises. Because the more you focus on what's good that they're doing, the more likely you're going to see it, and the more likely they're going to see it.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah, I dove a little bit into the search institute.org website. And I have to read this quote when they're talking about developmental assets here, and it says, “young people are not problems to be solved. They are more than the challenges they face. Every single young person contains the seeds of success and thriving. However, it takes intentional effort by practitioners. Educators, young people, families, mentors, and neighbors to cultivate healthy environments, provide the nutrients and nurture those seeds so that all young people have opportunities to have a positive impact in the world.”

Sharon Dunlevy: Yeah. They've been doing this for 20, 30, 40 years, I'm not even sure, but I have followed them the whole time.

Ryann Watkins: Sharon, thank you so much. Your work is making a difference in the world. I know it is. Thank you for showing up here with your passion and your brilliance to share information with us.

If someone wants to dive deeper, how can they find you and follow you? Sign up for your classes, all the things.

Sharon Dunlevy: Sure. The best place to find me is both on Facebook and LinkedIn. Just search Sharon Dunlevy, D-U-N-L-E-V-Y, and you'll find me.

Ryann Watkins: Amazing.

So, we're going to wrap up here, and I will ask you the three questions I ask everybody. Okay. The first one is, what's bringing you Joy?

Sharon Dunlevy: I love this. I've been doing several podcasts. I've been doing a couple of weeks, and I just think they're energizing. It's so good to feel like people want to hear what I have to say. It's my positive identity.

Ryann Watkins: Yes. Oh, I get it. This is so energizing, and you are so passionate.

What, if anything, are you reading right now? What's on your bookshelf?

Sharon Dunlevy: I am reading a book called The Habits of a Happy Brain. It goes into that whole growth mindset. What are the things that release serotonin, oxytocin, and dopamine? There are things we can do in our lives that will actually make our brain happy. And so that's what I'm reading right now.

Ryann Watkins:  And the next question, and the last question I have for you is, who or what has taught you the most?

Sharon Dunlevy: Oh my goodness. I have had a lot of adults that were really invested in who I was, obviously my parents. I took voice lessons when I was in high school, and Susan really brought out another side of me that I didn't know I had. When I went into college, I had lots of mentors. The chaplain at the college was probably one of my heroes at the time, and he just really nurtured who I was, and he was the reason I went into children's ministry for so long.

Yeah, there's just been a lot of people, a lot of touch points throughout my life, and I'm a religious person obviously, and I just believe God put me and put people in my life at the right times when I needed them. Found my husband when I needed him, and we've been married almost 27 years now. And my kid. I learned from my kid. If we look at them as not just kids but as teachers too. We learn a lot from them as well.

Ryann Watkins: Yeah, that's right. Thank you so much again, Sharon. This conversation was beautiful.

Sharon Dunlevy: Thank you.